PCO opens up.
PCO cut a promo on TNA and smashed the TNA Digital Media Championship at The People vs. GCW on January 19th. Fightful Select reported that PCO's TNA contract expired at the end of 2024, and he was set to finish up at the company's tapings in San Antonio the week after The People vs. GCW. PCO offered some insight into his actions in several posts on Twitter/X. He has since been removed from TNA's roster page.
In a new interview with Fightful's Sean Ross Sapp, PCO was asked to discuss what led up to this moment.
"Of course, I’m very upset at TNA’s new management, but I have to take full responsibility because I should have seen the red flags before, and I should have asked to get off my contract and ask for my release. I felt like I was in my comfort zone a little bit because this TNA roster is the best dressing room I was part of. No backstabbing, no crazy pranks. Such a nice locker room. The production team, their production is skating on thin ice. They do miracles with little. I like them a lot. Creative-wise, the creative team, I got along good with everybody. In 2024, I had the most wins on pay-per-view with Jordynne Grace and Moose with nine wins. That sounds crazy thinking that now I am talking to you without a contract with TNA. That’s out of the ordinary," PCO said.
PCO then highlighted TNA Slammiversary 2024 as he recalled his actions at The People vs. GCW. He stated that he sold out the biggest house that TNA had in the past several years. PCO also noted that he wasn't counting TNA Genesis 2025 due to the partnership with WWE.
"I go back to Slammiversary because I was trying to cut a promo after I smashed the belt with the sledgehammer and they were trying to take [the mic] away from me. I said I sold out the biggest house in TNA history, I want to say in Anthem history, since Hulk Hogan in 2012. That was the biggest house. Now, if you say TNA has their biggest house in Dallas, which I don’t think it was, it’s been announced as a partnership with WWE. So from now on, all the houses that grow bigger, it’s WWE. It’s not TNA anymore. It’s been announced they have a deal for three years," PCO said.
PCO continued by explaining how he was fighting with TNA's new management, as he thought they could have potentially drawn 4,000 fans for TNA Slammiversary. He claimed that management would come up with excuses. PCO said that he promised them that the show would be a sell-out, but they continued to disagree about the situation.
"I go back to Slammiversary, and every day I’m fighting with the new management about going from 2,000 people to 4,000 people. I cannot understand...the building cost the same, the security cost the same, the talent, flight, hotel, you can only increase your revenue. ‘Why aren’t we going to 4,000?’ They would come up with all kinds of excuses. ‘Usually when we get a great start, it flattens out. Usually this, usually that. When wrestlers promise a sell-out, they always do, but they never do. They always promise but never come across with the result.’ Before Slammiversary, when we booked the arena and date, I was in the office and I promised them, I shook their hands and gave them my word that it was going to be a sell-out. After the first day tickets were on sale, we had over 800 tickets sold. I said, ‘We’ll see how it keeps going.’ It kept going. When the timing was right, I felt to say that we’re going 4,000 people and a full arena. Now, we’re worrying about Sunday. ‘What if Sunday we have nobody?’ I had to fight for Sunday, on top of selling out Saturday. It was always a fight. ‘When we get more tickets sold on Sunday, then we’re going to open up.’ By the time you open up, you lose the buzz because there is a timing for everything. The timing was right. Not because I told them the timing was right, but I was hear during every TV and radio show and taking the pulse of how the people felt, and I knew what was the right timing to say, ‘We’re going full house,’ that was going to create an extra excitement. They might have waited another three weeks after I was telling them to go to a full house because they were worried about Sunday," PCO said.
PCO then detailed how he wanted to clothesline the mascot at a Montreal Alouettes game when he was there to promote TNA Slammiversary, as he noted that he had been working with the team for a long time. He looked back on how the TNA PR guy disagreed with him, and he felt like he didn't have any help regarding promotional appearances. PCO also said that he asked about doing radio appearances, and he was told that they didn't believe in radio; instead, the company prioritized social media. PCO stated that TNA drew an impressive house with Slammiversary, but he said that it was a struggle for him.
"We went to the [Montreal] Alouettes games and we were doing something with the mascot just before the game, and it was on TV. I was talking with the TNA PR guy and he said, ‘You cannot clothesline the mascot.’ I told him, ‘Yes, I do clothesline the mascot. I’ve been working with the Alouettes a long time.’ ‘You’re going to turn heel if you do that.’ ‘No, I know my market. Believe me.’ When I clotheslined the mascot, and almost took off his head, the whole stadium started to chant ‘PCO! PCO!’ That was the greatest feeling ever. I was telling him, ‘I know the market here. It is different from other markets.’ From the buzz from the Alouettes game, I was telling the PR guy, ‘You don’t hear the excitement of the people involved?’ That’s where I’m talking about red flags. I felt like I had no help and that I was kind of left alone and it was hard to get something. I asked for radio [appearances] and they said, ‘We don’t believe in radio. We believe in social media.’ ‘I see traffic every morning because I’m in the traffic. People are listening to something.’ Eventually, we did the press conference and it was a hell of a house. We always lose a little bit of an atmosphere with the production. If you’re there in person, it was double what you heard on pay-per-view. It was the first time in a while that I had seen so many journalists from the movie industry or shows, all kind of comedians, radio and TV hosts. It was good. They acknowledged the fact that I worked hard, but it was a struggle and fight every day," PCO said.
Regarding his statement that he sold out the biggest house in TNA, PCO clarified that he worked hard to help TNA show out the show. He detailed how he went all over Quebec, and he did a lot of promotional activities to help raise awareness for the show.
"When I say, ‘I’ve sold out the biggest house in TNA,’ I don’t mean I put my name on the marquee and it sold out like that. I meant, I worked for that. I probably got two or three hours of sleep per night. I went all over the province of Quebec, which is big. I did every little place and we did contests and drawings. I did meet and greets, football, soccer, basketball, radio shows, on region and in Montreal itself. When I say I sold it out, that’s what I did, because I worked my ass off. Not because I’m a marquee name," PCO said.
PCO also said that he was given a bonus, and he appreciated it because it would enable him to pay the team that helped him do the work in selling out the arena.
"They gave me a bonus and I said, ‘That’s cool. With that bonus, I’ll be able to pay the team that helped me do the work.’ I was able to give money to people that helped me sell out the arena," he said.
PCO went on to discuss how he spoke with management about his contract for 2025 at the company's Fayetteville tapings in November, and he was told that the company would re-sign him. He said that he would be happy with the same salary and conditions, with the addition of better seats on his flight due to inflation. He stated that the company agreed to the terms, but after he had to miss TNA Turning Point and WrestleCade, he was told they would discuss his contract at TNA Final Resolution. There, PCO said that he was told the company would not be giving him the deal they discussed in Fayetteville.
"In November, we go to Fayetteville, NC for TV tapings. I see the Vice President, and we’re talking about my contract for 2025. ‘Yes. Yes Carl, for sure, we will re-sign you.’ I laid down the foundation and I said simple and clear, ‘I’ll be happy with the same salary and same conditions at 2024. For the inflation, maybe bump me to better seats on my flight.’ He said, ‘Yeah, sure, sure, sure.’ I said, ‘Just work on the contract and send it to me and I can sign it and return it to you.’ On [November] 29, it was WrestleCade. I had to miss WrestleCade because I had family personal issues that were really serious and bad. I couldn’t go to WrestleCade, and I got a text message from them, ‘Just called to check in. Missing you at WrestleCade. Hope everything is well with the family.’ Nice message like that. I was pretty confident. The last show of the year, Final Resolution, I called before and said, ‘What about the contract?’ They said, ‘We’ll discuss that on [December 13] in Atlanta.’ I get to Atlanta and see everybody coming in and out of the office. I see some people quitting, and it seems to be like a tough day. I walked in, they told me what we discussed in Fayetteville, ‘We can’t do that anymore. It’s going to be a different deal,'" he said.
PCO then said that TNA changed the deal after they shook hands on it. He stated that he told them he did not think he could accept the new deal. However, he told them they would think about it if they helped him with papers, which had to be signed by the company. PCO sad that TNA told him they would, and they agreed to an extension so he could drop the TNA Digital Media Championship at their tapings in San Antonio. He said that they shook hands again, and TNA promised him they would do as he asked.
"They changed it. We had already shook hands on it. I’m very old school. A handshake, you give me your word and look me in the eye, for me, it’s a done deal and a promise, especially if you said, ‘I promise.’ I’m surprised, but I’m listening. I can’t believe what they’re changing the deal to, with the new one. I said, ‘I don’t think I can accept that, but I’m going to think about it tonight. I’ll be back with my answer tomorrow. One thing is for sure, I would like for you to give me your word....’ it was something not about money. I cannot disclose what it is. I said, ‘I need you to help me out with those papers. It has to be signed by the company. They said, ‘Of course, Carl, with everything you’ve done. Montreal and everything.’ That was just for the extension for me to go drop the title on the [January] 23rd in San Antonio [TV tapings]. That was just on the promise, besides the money. I shook hands with them and they promised me. Big promise that they were going to take care of that," he said.
PCO then said that he worked TNA Final Resolution, and he came back for the following tapings. He stated that he was willing to lower the money he was asking for, so he would be paid for all the shows he worked. When asked to clarify, he confirmed that he meant he was willing to accept less money in exchange for having more dates to even it out. He stated that they shook hands again, and they agreed to a new deal for 2025 which would see him take a paycut.
"I worked that night and came back for the next TV taping. It was the pay-per-view, even though my head was not all there. On Sunday, before going to the ring, I said, ‘I’m willing to lower my money and be paid for all the shows throughout the years.’ Yeah. They said, ‘It’s important for you to be on.’ I said, ‘Yeah, TV equals money too. It’s a good production and I’d like to be featured on the show. You’ve been taking care of me well and I’m hopeful that 2025 will be as good.’ We shook hands, again, and that was the third time, plus the other side promise from the day before. We were cool for 2025 for a full deal now, a whole year, and I took a paycut," PCO said.
PCO continued by describing how he got concussed during his match against Shera at TNA Emegence in August, and he stated that he felt like he was not treated well from that point on. PCO said that nobody came with him in the ambulance, and he was not given any assistance otherwise, though the company said they would reimburse him.
"I wrestled the main event and I got concussed. I’m trying to get my sense back, and I gave my body. I gave everything I had for three years. I took bumps on the cement floor. Bumps from the stage. On the side of the apron. Everything to please the fans and give a great show and have the chant, ‘He’s not human.’ It’s for the people to have that entertainment. I like to give it all and I’m so passionate about the business. I showed my passion by selling out [Montreal]. I could not have sold it out if the production was not a good production. I couldn’t have sold it out if it was a bad roster or any of those things weren’t aligned with everything that I was selling. I was selling my name, because I’ve been main eventing a lot of shows in Montreal on many occasions for numerous years, so I know a lot of people and have a lot of connections. Of course, my name was the big thing, but I couldn’t do it on my own. I’m not crazy. It was a great show all over. My match with AJ Francis and me winning the title, the whole card was great. I got concussed and I felt from that point that I was not treated well. For everything I gave, they kind of shoved me into the ambulance. Nobody came with me. No assistance whatsoever. On my own. ‘Put that on your credit card. We’ll reimburse you.’ Like I know how much it’s going to cost. No business card. ‘Give the address of the hospital to registration,'" PCO said.
Sapp noted that the cost and coverage varied depending on location, and PCO responded by recalling how he had a staph infection in Florida in 2022. He claimed that TNA did not pay for it at all, and he was in the hospital for four days. PCO said that this cost him a lot of money, and the company never paid for it, so he didn't want to go to the hospital when he got hurt again.
"That brings me to 2022, I had a staph infection in Florida, and they never paid a dime on it. I spent four days at the hospital for a staph infection because I did a fight in the desert of Nevada against Eddie Edwards, where we were fighting on the rocks. It’s a stiff desert. It’s a lot of rocks and not much sand. It’s a hard ground. We didn’t have any props. We were fighting right on the rocks and soil. I scratched my elbow on a rock and I got infected with a staph infection. It did cost me a lot of money and the company never paid a dime for that. Now, I’m like, I don’t want to go to the hospital if I feel like I’m not going to be covered by the company. I feel it’s going to cost me money again like it did in Florida," PCO said.
PCO also brought up how he banged his head during a match with Jake Something, and he finished the match, but he was told that he needed to go to the hospital tp get stitches. He stated that he did not want to get stitches, as he had been using super glue. He noted that he had to pass a medical exam, and he said that things were starting to somewhat go wrong. PCO then said circled back to his contract situation and said that, on December 19th, he was told that TNA told him they were pulling his deals after they spoke with their physician, though PCO had been cleared to return to work. He stated that TNA broke their promises, so he didn't want to go to the San Antonio tapings.
"Another time, I did a dive through the ropes and I banged heads with Jake Something. I got opened up, but I finished the match, did my moonsault, everything worked out good. Me and Jake talked. The physician of the company came up to me and said, ‘You need to go to the hospital for stitches.’ I told him, ‘No. Just put super glue. I’ve been putting super glue for the last four years. Nobody said anything.’ That night, they wanted me to get stitches. They put super glue, and after I showed pictures of how I healed up and everything was good, I was asked to go pass a medical. Why Jake didn’t have to pass medical, but myself, because I needed stitches, I needed medical. Things were starting to go kind of wrong. I was trying to get back to my sense, but they were pulling my luggage, ‘Let’s go. Get in the ambulance.’ I got in the ambulance and did everything on my own. I went through the CAT scan gimmick and while I was lying there, they checked everything and it was positive and good. They checked my cervical, my head, my neck, and my spine. It came out clear. The doctors said everything is good, ‘You can go back to work tomorrow.’ I sent [TNA] the results by text message, we took a picture of all of the reports. Never thought about it after that. December 19, I get a text message, ‘Are you free for a Zoom call?’ I got on a Zoom call at 3pm, and they said, ‘After discussing with our physician, we decided to pull off all the deals. There is no deal.’ ‘What about my paper? You promised me.’ I went to see a neurologist in Montreal and I know everything was fine. They pulled out, and I don’t know why. We had the deal when I was going to extend, but now that the deal was up, they still wanted me to extend, but I had nothing in return to extend. ‘Everything promise you made is worth shit. Why should I go to San Antonio now? You’re breaking the deal. I’m not breaking the deal,'" PCO said.
As for The People vs. GCW, PCO said that he booked himself, and he wanted to say something. He said that he didn't know what he was going to do, but he felt angry. PCO admitted that he should have asked for his release after TNA Slammiversary, but he liked everyone there. He said that he was caught by surprise when things went wrong, but he could not live with the broken promises. PCO stated that he was disappointed by how everything was handled by the new management. PCO said that he felt justified, as he had to stand up for himself.
"I booked myself for GCW and I wanted to say something. I didn’t know what I was going to do, but this is how I felt. Anger, I would say. I should have asked for my release after Slammiversary, but I liked everybody so much. I think that’s the reason I didn’t ask for my release. I could have never seen the curveball coming. I could never imagine in a million years. It took me by surprise. I was able to live with certain things, but there were some promises made that I was not able to. There are a lot of things that I cannot say on the medical side. I have my point of view and I’m very disappointed with how everything was handled by the new management. I said Scott D’Amore was the architect of the locker room, the production team, the launching of TNA, and I felt like they ran on his gas and they ran with it because they had great talent, but eventually, two writers; Jimmy Jacobs and Robert Evans left for AEW. Some other people start leaving. You could see that maybe something was wrong, but you always hope you can make it right. I felt like it was justified on my behalf because they know how driven I am. They know that if you put an obstacle in front of me, I’m going to go through them. How passionate I am for this business and how much I want to succeed. I’m not just a piece of carpet you can walk on. I felt I had to stand up for myself," he said.
When asked whether he had heard from anyone in TNA, he said that he had a conversation with Tommy Dreamer on December 27th. He stated that he texted the Vice President an idea, and they said they would talk the following week, but he did not hear from them. PCO said he still hadn't heard from TNA about the San Antonio tapings ahead of The People vs. GCW.
"After they pulled everything, me and Tommy Dreamer had a conversation on December 27, a Rhino show in Detroit, I did everything there, all my crazy stuff, tore the house down. After that, me and Tommy had a discussion. I texted the Vice President about an idea. Even if I texted them, they said, ‘We’ll talk to you next week and we’ll figure out things.’ I still had no communication. After the 19th, I sent one text message, got a text back saying, ‘We’ll talk next week,’ and we never talked. All the way to my day at GCW, I had no talk about the 23rd in San Antonio. I thought, ‘That’s enough BS,'" PCO said.
PCO was then asked about GCW claiming that while they knew he would do something at the show, they did not know the extent, and he confirmed that this was accurate. He said that he didn't think they expected him to say something. He stated that smashing the title with a sledgehammer was a last-minute thing.
"Yes, it is. I don’t think they expected me to say something. Maybe in their mind, they expected, but there was still no communication from them, so they probably knew I was going to say something. When you talk to friends, it’s a small world, and maybe they have words, ‘He’s going to do something.’ This thing just came out of the blue and was a last-minute thing, deciding to put the sledgehammer to the belt. When we were discussing Montreal, the International Title, to me, was the main title I was fighting for because there is so much lineage since 1932 with Lou Thesz, Billy Robinson, Dino Bravo, Rick Martel, Mad Dog Vachon, Abdullah The Butcher, Huka, Samu, and on and on until PCO. They were supposed to make the International Title a TNA title and keep the lineage, and I was proud of that. Here we are six months later, and they still haven’t done it. I asked them and they said, ‘It takes time to do those things, Carl.’ Okay, six months, it takes time. They did another belt in less than four days for Steph to have won in the divorce. If that’s all my divorce is going to cost me, the title, that’s alright. It’s not a very expensive divorce for someone in the business. They spin their wheels fast enough to get another belt in four or five days. ‘It takes time to do those things, Carl.’ I thought the title looked good on the 23rd," PCO said.
PCO then reiterated that he had not heard from anyone in TNA and stated that it had been "dead silence." When asked about how he would feel if they called him and tried to do business, he questioned how he could trust them.
"How can you trust now? How can you have trust? That’s tough. That’s really tough," PCO said.
Sapp pointed out that PCO smashed TNA's title with a sledgehammer, so there was give and take with the situation. PCO replied by saying that he didn't think TNA was smart enough to capitalize on the incident and use it for an angle. He wished TNA the best, and he was focused on moving forward.
"That’s the greatest thing. I don’t think they’re smart enough to realize how good it is. If they were smart, that could have been an angle they could have done for real. I was discouraged and I am still. They put everything on red at the casino, and it’s all on WWE now. I wish them all the best and I wish it works well for them. You can’t be a victim. People don’t care for victims. People like warriors and fighters, people that never give up, and they keep going. That’s the way I am and the way I operate. Refocus, recalibrate, and charge," PCO said.
PCO also addressed the criticism he faced following his comments about drawing the house, and he said that he worked hard for the platform that he had. He stated that he had been with ROH, and he previously turned down AEW multiple times. PCO reiterated that he was very disappointed with the new management in TNA by the end of his time there.
"I had people attacking me about drawing the house. ‘Yeah, TNA gave you a platform.’ I worked my ass off for that platform. IIgot attacked on Twitter, ‘Yeah, he turned down AEW three times.’ I just couldn’t make it. I respect TNA too much and I have a huge respect for Scott D’Amore. It was different management. It takes time to get to know somebody. It took a year to get to know the new management. I was very disappointed at the end," PCO said.
PCO was then asked if there was anything else that he wanted people to know, and he emphasized that he did what he had to do. He stated that he did not have any regrets, and he felt good about it. PCO also thanked the fans for their support and looked forward to the future.
"I want them to know that I did what I had to do. I have no regret about it. I feel very good about this. People bought tickets to St. Louis to come see me. It’s not my fault if I’m not there. I had a lot of people swearing at me, ‘I bought tickets for you and you’re not going to be there. You smashed that belt.’ Don’t judge anything before you know the facts. I feel I’m in great shape, super health, and feel good to go for a great run. We’ll stop when we get there, not before. Tremendous support by a lot of fans. I’m touched," he said.
PCO was also asked whether he brought up not being reimbursed for the staph infection with TNA, and he claimed that they did not care about hospital bills before. He said that they had just started to care about it recently.
"They would never care about the hospital bills before. That’s a new thing and just started. Before, when you would go to the office, they would not care about that. It was almost like an indie company. Now, maybe after Chris Bey got injured, everything got more serious. It’s almost to the point now where it’s hard to break a nail. I totally get it, but you’re still running a wrestling business. People are going to break their leg, separate their shoulder, get concussed. Bronson Reed might be out for a year because of his ankle. A good friend of mine and I was disappointed when I saw that. I felt hurt for him. Hurts in a way for the fact that it was going to push him out of his run because he was in a great run of his life. Couldn’t be worse timing for him, but there is always something good to come out of adversity. That’s the way I look at my situation. I know something better will come out of it because when you fight and warrior through it, good things happen. Sometimes it takes a while and it’s a long tunnel, but maybe that’s going to open up more doors for me," PCO said.
Check out GCW promoter Brett Lauderdale's comments about PCO's actions at The People vs. GCW here.
Click here to see what Matt Hardy had to say about PCO.
The full interview with PCO can be seen at the top of this page.
